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Talk:Timeline
This page is just a timeline, not a detailed account of everything that happened in the current story This page is just a timeline and as such should give nothing more than the bare bones info. It is to show when the events happened in relation to the story, not give an account of the events themselves. That is done elsewhere (like the new fights pages (when they're ready) and the arc summaries (Template:Story)). I've removed a lot of info from the Fake Karakura Town arc, as it bloated with irrelevant and often repeated info. The page is long enough without including a blow-by-blow account of the fights, and it is only going to get longer as the series goes on. So when adding to it, just add the basics. "X fought Y, Z interrupted, Z wins." is good enough. --Yyp 19:03, November 22, 2009 (UTC) In the same vein of cleaning up the page there's just too many events listed here without any references. If you add something make sure it actually belongs in the timeline AND make sure you have a reference and add it. KnyghtMare Academy 2000 years ago & TBtP questions Errr, I had in mind that someone said in the manga that Yamamoto founded academy 2000 years ago, but I'm not sure, is he only 2000 years old or did he found academy 2000 years ago ? Before confirmation, I just wrote "Unknown Time Ago(Between 2000 and 200 years)" Mili-Ciensys 23:17, 17 December 2008 (UTC) -108 page 13 says: "I mean, the only remnants of the original guard from a century ago". This to me says the Academy was founded BEFORE the Gotei 13 and candidates for the divisions were picked from the academy. The same manga chapter says that Rose has held captains seat for a year or less making the 3rd seat resignment only a year before at max. Just looked at the chapters in different translations(French, ENglish) by different sub-team, well.... I got only this : "And they just made rose the 3rd division captain few days ago" "The only captains that are still here from 100 years ago are Me, Ukitake, And Yama-jii" "Captain Unohana's still here" "I just forgot about Dai-Sempai..." Mili-Ciensys 23:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC) Dai Sempai ? who's dai sempai ( Ginrei Kuchiki?)– :99,9% chance that they were talking about Unohana ^^ Mili-Ciensys 23:28, 17 December 2008 (UTC) "sempai" is a term of endearment for Unohana. Both Captains look up to her. You mean Dai Sempai is Unohana, but the thing above says "Captain Unohana's still here" "I just forgot about Dai-Sempai....'' '' :It's Ukitake that says "Captai Unohana's still here", to which Shunsui reply "OH, that's right ! I totally forgot Dai-sempai, I'm gonna get yelled at..." Mili-Ciensys THANK YOU FOR CLEARING UP MY CONFUSION. If you're using french translations they seem to suck. The context of the scene is as if to say "oh yeah, I forgot about her. If she knew she'd be angry at me". :Primary, I consider it as simply bad consideration :" What I read is true, not what you read"..., secondly, I was using an english translation.. :Sorry, not my intention at all and was a bit overcome with annoyance :P When reading scanlated material it's important to keep with context is all. :Resolved Chapter -108 opening Chapter -108 opens with "A Century Earlier" which would put our timeline for Urahara's promotion and Hikifune's promotion to Squad 0 Aprox. 100 years ago. What is your reference for 108 years ago? Chapter number? :Yup, it's what I used to set that. I hesited too, yeha, but then, few chapters later, we had something like "9 years later..."Mili-Ciensys 23:51, 17 December 2008 (UTC) I think "9 years later..." would mean 91 years ago from present day? I know this is old, but still... The TBtP chapters were set between 110 years ago and 101 years ago (http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/0/-108/5). I have changed the headings to reflect this. --Yyp 15:57, November 22, 2009 (UTC) :Resolved Gotei 13 It has never been stated that yama-ji created the Gotei 13 but it was said (I can't remember where exactly but i'll look it up) that the location of the king's key which is what aizen wanted was passed from Sotaicho to Sotaicho meaning that at somepoint in time a different Sotaicho was incharged. Also Bleach tents to not expecify dates just approximation making it very difficult to actially said when an event took placeWhiteStrike 23:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC) Totally agreed. Yamamoto does, however, take credit for founding the academy at some point in time. KnyghtMare 23:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC) I agree too, I simply kept Knyght's original edit... But I've a question about it : Without academy, how can a Gotei 13 exist ? Mili-Ciensys :Maybe he just meant he created the academy the way it currentlys is as? Bleach tends to be very vague when it comes to certain kind of information and expecially dates. like when aizen creates the current espada it is supposed to have been in under a year but Nnoitra says that he kicked Nel out years before that. For now we can only put what little info we have and correct things as the rest of the story is revealled WhiteStrike 00:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC) The Espada existed long before the Soul Society arc and have been marshaled by Aizen for quite some time. The current generation is under a year old because they have been made with the Hōgyoku. KnyghtMare 00:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC) I agree that the espada existed long before the start of the series however no indication of how long has aizen been in control hasbeen said and if all the current espada were made by aizen then that would mean Nnoitra and it would mean that the whole thing about kicking Nel out years ago contradicts itself WhiteStrike 00:34, 18 December 2008 (UTC) If you pay attention to the manga/anime you'll notice Nnoitra tease Nel about the difference in the Espada's power since she departed. It's likely that the current generation of Espada are enchanced from the already existing Espada, a rebirth if you will. KnyghtMare 00:45, 18 December 2008 (UTC) Yea this discussion has been on my mind sometime now. Im really wondering when Gotei 13 came about. If Yamamoto is over 2000 yrs old and all then when did he become captain? If Unohana, Ukitake and Kyoraku are of the first round of captains left then, what came before them. Id assume that Soul Society has existed as long as there has been humans so if thats the case, id guess Soul Society may not have had the Gotei 13 in the current form that its in. Maybe there were less captains back then as their werent a need for so many shinigami because there was less hollows and souls. If thats the case then ukitake and kyoraku, are the first captains formally trained in the academy. Therefore Yamamoto and unohana being older have been captains before the academies existence obviously. So it was possibly some form or mentor training before then but their probably hadnt been as many captains as there currently are a little before ukitake and kyoraku's time i dont know. Another question is how old are the espada, i mean its stated nelial was one at one time but when was that. aizen started his experiments around 110 yrs ago so are they about that old at least for the artificial ones or are the natural ones that old and the artificial ones much younger, its really hard to guage the arrancars timeline. Salubri 19:42, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Soifon Any reference to when she was taken under Yourichi's wing? KnyghtMare 00:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC) Lieutenants What about the lieutenants? wasn't Jushiro trying to get Kaien as his lieutenant, when did Seinnosuke step down or even die, what about the other lieutenants, and when main characters joined the academy and WHAT ABOUT WHEN RUKIA WAS ADOPTED. ETC! :Don't be like that, please. First, we began making that few minuts(hour ?) ago, it's not complete, also, feel free to improve, it's always better than asking it with caps lock and almost-agressive message ;) Okee-dokee then, - Rukia and the Hoguku When does it get implanted inside her? I can't see a window for it to happen. KnyghtMare 05:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC) I'd Say it would be sometime during the 100 - 200 years ago section of the page - That would pre-date his use of the Hoguku to try and help the Vizard. KnyghtMare 02:09, 19 December 2008 (UTC) ( Sorry I made a mistake )The Hogyoku was implanted in her before the main storyline started because it wasn't shown in the first chapter/episode, also Rukia was assigned to the Human World 90 years ago right, so that means she needed a gigai, which Kisuke Urahara Gave to her with the hogyoku iplanted in it already. So it should fit in the 90 years ago section. - :When does it said that Rukia came to the human world 90 yrs ago I don't ever remember reading that. Also the Hogyioku was implanted in her thru the Gigai that Urahara gave her when she lost her powers. If she have had that Gigai before that her power would have been consumed as was the purpose of the gigai that she wore (she didn't know this). WhiteStrike 02:31, 19 December 2008 (UTC) ::WhiteStrike pretty much has it right. The Hogyoku would have to be implanted in the gigai when Urahara gave it to her. And yeah, that is important, since it's the entire reason why Aizen killed off Central 46 and manipulated the events of the Soul Society Arc. If the Hogyoku wasn't in Rukia's body sometime during the Pre-Soul Society Arc, then there isn't any other way she could have ended up with it inside her body. Arrancar109 21:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC) Movies Should we leave movie events and the Shūsuke Amagai Arc out of the timelines? Those are the only things in that don't seem to fit (or are too difficult to fit in). Arrancar109 05:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC) The Amagai arc really doesn't fit at all in a real timeline. The starting annotation says it's going back in time yet Ishida, Sado and Ichigo have abilities they shouldn't have until after the current arc (unless I read the translations wrong). So they should be left out. Ideally I didn't really want anime-only events in either as it's not entirely 100% canon but oh well. KnyghtMare 07:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC) The Amagai Arc is somewhat self-explanatory, since it interrupted the the Hueco Mundo arc (for the sake of giving Kubo more time to update the manga), but still, I think we should consider keeping movie events out of the main timeline. Namely DiamonDust Rebellion, since, like the Amagai Arc, is exceedingly difficult to place in the timeline (at least at the moment). Arrancar109 21:23, 19 December 2008 (UTC) :Tehcnically a timeline of events should only include events which have been dictated by the source material in this case the manga. Anime evets (some not all) fit in the current story line but are not considered cannon. Movies take place outside the continum of the series and are even less cannon than the anime thus only manga material should be included in the timeline additional info can only be added if is something that was stated by Tite Kubo himself such as info in databooks, interviews and such. WhiteStrike 21:43, 19 December 2008 (UTC) :Resolved Grand Fisher I moved his Arrancar transformation to the substitute arc as this is when he is depicted removing his mask (with some help) in the manga. KnyghtMare 13:50, 19 December 2008 (UTC) :Resolved Barragan's Recruitment Should we place it in the unknown or in the 90 years? Change it to where it is appropriately placed.--Agate genbu 07:41, 28 August 2009 (UTC) :We know that Ichimaru, Tosen & Aizen were all captains at the time, so it occurred less than 101 years ago. We also know from minor details such as Aizen's hairstyle & glasses and Tosen wearing his haori that it happened prior to their defection (Tosen did not have a haori on at the end of the SS arc and he was bandaged up). --Yyp 15:57, November 22, 2009 (UTC) It was probably sometime within Byakuya being captain. Rukia reminiscences on the day of her execution that Byakuya was promoted to captaincy around the same time as Ichimaru. So it was sometime 50 years ago.--Shinitenshi 19:58, November 22, 2009 (UTC) :Yup, that is correct. Ichimaru & Kuchiki became captains between 40 & 50 years before the start of the story. --Yyp 21:33, November 22, 2009 (UTC) Zaraki and Kuchiki Two things: #Zaraki is listed as having become a captain both between 110-100 years ago AND between 90 years ago and current day. It seems like one of those would be incorrect, and should perhaps be adjusted? #It says that Byakuya adopted Rukia 40 years ago. I understand that because she says she's been part of the Kuchiki family for 40 years in episode 18. (Exactly, she says, "Forty years have passed since I was taken in by the Kuchiki family...") However, Byakuya also says in episode 62 that his wife had died 50 years ago and the following year, he found and adopted Rukia. That'd mean she was adopted 49 years ago. Which one is accurate? Twocents 00:52, 29 August 2009 (UTC) Exile?? I protest the word exile being associated with Isshin. Who says he was exiled? That's just speculation. We don't know what happened. He could have just left on his own. You can say that is unlikely but we have no proof that he was exiled. We come down on speculation hard everywhere else. Why is this statement allowed to remain on this article? Tinni 15:11, November 22, 2009 (UTC) :It is not being allowed to stay (it has been removed). A massive amount of this page is inaccurate or speculative. I'm going through it now, but it needs a fair bit of work, so it will take time. Btw, exile does not mean he was forced to leave by the authorities. There is such a thing as self-imposed exile, but I agree it is a poor word to use. --Yyp 15:23, November 22, 2009 (UTC) ::I am aware of that you can exile yourself but that is usually so rare that in those cases the word "self imposed" is usually associated with the word exiled. The way it was stated did make it sound as if Isshin was "exiled" by someone. Besides which, exile mean he can't return, whether it is self imposed or not. Isshin might just be an "ex-pat", free to return but choosing to live abroad. We don't know and therefore I even have reservations about Isshin being categorized as an "Exiled Shinigami", which he is in his article. But I don't suppose that can be helped. Tinni 15:34, November 22, 2009 (UTC) :::People can return from self-imposed exiles. Anyway, it's changed to say "Isshin Kurosaki leaves Soul Society to live in the Human World." I've done the same for Yoruichi. --Yyp 21:33, November 22, 2009 (UTC) :::Can we not integrate the surefire knowledge that it's been 20 years since Isshin lost his powers somewhere on this page? I don't think it's really a stretch to say that this was coincident with his leaving Soul Scoiety either. Considering this date is well known I wouuld have to imagine that this point has already been debated somewhere though I can't locate it. Baarb (talk) 04:31, September 16, 2010 (UTC) Quincy less than 2000yrs old? Does it say anywhere that the Quincy were formed in the last 2000 years? I was not aware of there being any dates associated with the Quincy other than their extermination approx. 200yrs ago. I'm moving it to unknown for now. --Yyp 15:57, November 22, 2009 (UTC) Proposal to delete This article is a disgrace. It has very few references, no actual use and doesn't relate to anything else on the site. I propose that we delete this article. I have already started the Fights, Battles & Events page that will index the events and battles of Bleach, actually has references and provides additional information in the form of dates. Much, much, much more useful then a bunch of bullet points listing stuff. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 16:49, July 15, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah I agree. I would say we should just redirect it to your Fights, Battles & Events page and/or that page get renamed to Timeline and take this one's place. The Shadow Dragon 19:10, July 15, 2010 (UTC) ::I am thinking redirecting it to Fights, Battles & Events page works best. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 05:18, July 16, 2010 (UTC) :Sounds good, but don't forget that there are many events on this timeline that are not yet on the Fights, Battles & Events page. Might wait until it is further along before deleting it. 16:12, July 17, 2010 (UTC) The Fights, Battles & Events page is quite mature now. So I once again propose that this page be deleted and a redirect made to the Fights, Battles & Events page from Timeline. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 01:36, September 5, 2010 (UTC) : Personally I really like this page as it gives you a great idea of how significant events are realted in time in a very succinct manner. For me keeping the clarity of the events that preceded the present day is very important, i.e. who joined what when and so on as thse are the hard things to piece together from all the flashback snippets. Turning "Hollowfication of the eight known Vizard and death of 9th Division officers." into the half a dozen fights that take place during the event will remove said clarity of the temporal relations. If everything is put into the Fights etc page then I would hope that some version of this timeline is at the top of the page to give that clear overview and permit quick navigation. Baarb (talk) 04:31, September 16, 2010 (UTC) :The Fights, Battles & Events page will have a past timeline. But this page has to go. Besides which, most of this information is out of date, wrong and still unreferenced! Indeed, this includes the information you cited. Those are actually the most erroneous of the information on the page. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 01:16, September 17, 2010 (UTC) The Fights, Battles & Events page has come on strongly since I last posted in this topic. I am happy to move on from this page, turning it into a redirect to the new page, assuming no serious objections/problems. 19:14, September 22, 2010 (UTC) I agree wholeheartedly with you both, but I think we should keep this page until the replacement has its past timeline set into stone. As (ridiculously) flawed as this page is, it covers the holes that the Fights, Battles & Events page currently has. Once that's done, then you could purge this "abomination." That's my take anyway. Mohrpheus (talk) 19:36, September 22, 2010 (UTC) Well last comment on this page was in September and no one has complained. The historical timeline for the Fights, Battles & Events is still not ready but everything else is there. Including the Invasion of Soul Society timeline. So I think it's time for this page to go! [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 16:10, December 21, 2010 (UTC) When Yamamoto become 1st Division Captain/Gotei 13 Commander-General? I notice that Yamamoto becoming 1st Division Captain is listed under both the "Unknown" and the "between 2100 and 101 years ago" section. Hasn't it already been confirmed in Chapter 394 that that happened 1000 years ago? To quote Yamamoto himself: How did you think it is that for 1,000 years, I served as the 30th Captain-Commander of the Gotei 13? That seems solid canon evidence to me. MarqFJA (talk) 02:28, August 4, 2010 (UTC) Note, that was a translation error and Yama-jii said nothing about being the 30th Captain-Commander. However, this is mute point as I am currently waging a campaign to get this page deleted. There will be a past history timeline constructed for the Fights, Battles & Events page and I'll make sure to put things down correctly. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 01:36, September 5, 2010 (UTC) Then what is the correct translation? The previous quote was from Binktopia's scanlation on Mangastream (which is now unavailable, since it's considered an "old" chapter; I have it stored on my hard drive). MarqFJA (talk) 21:49, September 16, 2010 (UTC) Maximum 7 had it as "Why do you think I alone have commanded the Gotei 13 for the last thousand years". PS. If I were you, I would get rid of my chapter saves from Mangastream and download new versions from Ju-ni or even Maximum 7. Speedscans are great and all but they are not long term references. [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 01:16, September 17, 2010 (UTC) Thank you. I will endeavour to follow your advice. PS: I assume that the raw scans have already checked for the Japanese numerals for "30th", and the result was negative. MarqFJA (talk) 02:46, September 17, 2010 (UTC) Yes, if my memory serves me right, Adam at the time concluded that Blinkatopic translators got confused with 13th and or deliberately trolled the fandom. The discussion at the time took place here. Discussion closed and I once again renew my call to delete this reference less, sub-par article once and for all! [[User:Tinni|'Tinni']] (Talk) 15:25, September 21, 2010 (UTC)